Note: The next three blogs are all centered on one theme, a theme that I’ll share with you in the conclusion which I’ll post in two weeks. I’m starting the series addressing the ladies, because why not? Next week, I’ll address the guys and the following I’ll address them both. Enjoy, and try not to get your panties all tangled and twisted.
Towards the end of my fourth year in college, the Delta’s hosted a forum to discuss the state of relationships at UVA. Essentially, it was an opportunity for the girls to vent their frustrations about the guys (or lack thereof) at school. Not many guys showed face. Naturally. I was one of maybe seven in attendance, and the girls easily outnumbered us by twenty.
“There are so many pretty ladies here that have a lot going on for themselves, yet there are NO guys that just knock me off my feet.”
Needless to say, this was the general tone throughout the evening and was near a direct quote from the moderator. I could have let her sentiments slide, except that she was one of the least attractive girls on campus. She was nice enough (I guess), and cool (another guess). But none of my friends had ever tried to get at her, which is actually something she had in common with the majority of the young ladies in the room.
For as cute as these girls thought they were, none of the guys I knew would agree with them. It’s not that they were bad looking. Not at all. It’s just that these young women found themselves to be attractive by their own standards, and seemed to completely disregard the opinions of their male counterparts*. It’s all good to be self assured of who you are and what you have going for yourself, but at the end of the day, can’t I (men) at least have some say in what qualifies you as a “good catch”?
You can, sir. But would you like for me to continue reading the specials?
No, that’s fine. I’ll just take the “Catch of the Day”. Nothing like some fresh dolphin fish. Thank you, sir.
I remember a few summers back when a friend introduced me to one of his homegirls. She was pleasant. Dark. Kinda cute. A cool person to chill and be friends with, but not really my type in terms of someone I would date. Thing is, I wanted to smash. Her body was ridiculous. And given she was keen on flirting with me since the moment we met, it was only a matter of time before an åss grab and intimate conversation ensued. The åss grab was fine (and welcomed). But when she was able to discern that I wasn’t interested in anything beyond sex, it upset her because she saw herself as a “quality chick” and couldn’t understand why I didn’t.
:: Sigh ::
It’s not that I didn’t see her as quality. I did, which is why I was fine remaining friends. But not once during our getting-to-know-each-other phase did she even ask what I looked for in a woman. She just assumed that because she was college educated, because she was active in her church, community and career, and because she was constantly on the receiving end of male attention (whether good or bad†), that she was a woman I’d want to pursue romantically…especially since I found her sexually attractive.
!!!!!!!
But it doesn’t work that way. Not even close.
Why not?
Because education, career accomplishments, church, and social standing, don’t exactly rank high on my list of characteristics (ahem) I seek. I take those things into consideration. Strongly. But they take a back seat to some other aspects of a person that I deem far more important.
And what are those?
For now, it doesn’t matter what they are and that’s not even the point. The point is that when it comes to pursing a romantic interest, I’m the one responsible for defining what I like and what I look for, and no one else. As logically sound and obvious as this concept may seem, it’s often ignored when people (read: women) voice their opinions concerning the skewed male:female ratio that dominates dating discussion. When I read the articles and engage in conversations addressing the issue, I observe an underlying theme from the many women who complain: they use their resumes as a barometer for how deserving they are of a good man…oh, and occasionally they’ll mention their good looks, which usually equates to how stylish and well kept they are and not to how they look when fresh out the shower.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m not knocking any of these women. I just want to know where they get off suggesting that I or any other man find them attractive based on their standards. Let’s be honest, it’s not exactly uncommon to hear a woman say she wants a man to reach or exceed a certain height, that he have at least one degree, and that he be ambitiously employed. And there’s also nothing wrong with a woman having this list of wants or any others. But I can’t help but notice that the same women who define the aforementioned man as their ideal suitor, perceive themselves as worthy candidates because they as women meet their own criteria.
At the same time, whenever you see the statistics dissecting the skewed male:female ratio, they always cite college educated, professional women as the ones struggling to find equivalent partners. Now, I’m not suggesting that the ratio of men to women who fit this mold isn’t skewed, because it is. I just don’t think it matters. What matters to me is that you have a sense of humor. What matters to me is that you have creative passions outside of your nine to fives. What matters is to me is that you have a favorite Beatle and don’t mind debating why John is greater than Paul (I’ll of course argue the negative).
What matters to me (and most guys I know) is that you have an engaging personality and that you’re interesting. But guess what. You don’t get to decide if you’re interesting or not. I do. And if I don’t, you can’t very well expect me to take a serious interest in you. I have my standards, too, and it ain’t my fault if they don’t conform to anyone else’s.
Am I the only one who notices this trend? If I’m correct in my observation, then why is it that a woman would define herself as “quality” based on her own definition and not that of the interested party? What I really want to know is, who are you to define my standards?
*For anyone interested, the conclusion of this forum was quite fascinating. After listening to the ladies go on and on with their lists of grievances and standards, I felt it was time to speak. “I see you’ve all got your list here, none of which include the words ‘loyal’, ‘honest’ or ‘understanding’…but that’s cool. Let’s say you finally meet this wonderful man who has all of these qualities. What happens when he turns around and you don’t meet his standards…and he walks away? What then?”
Pandemonium.
I don’t remember all the immediate feedback my comments received because there was a lot of standing and pointing and shouting of expletives. But I do remember a friend of mine approaching me afterwards to tell me how mean I was for saying what I had to say. Mkay. So I just sat through listening to countless diatribes of the guys on campus, and my one keeping it real moment is what pissed everyone off? To be fair to her and girlfriends, they didn’t have a fµcking clue, so there was no need for me to be upset or surprised by their reactions. And I wasn’t.
†There is a huge difference between good and bad attention. I’m sure many of you are aware of this, but I just don’t think it can be emphasized enough.
I came to the conclusion a ways back that women, black women in particular just need to learn to be honest with themselves. You're saying the same thing--they need to be honest with what they're looking for and be honest with who they are themselves.
ReplyDeleteAnd increasingly, some of those black women in the room, I'm sure, became less and less attractive the more and more they complained about their seemingly machinated plight as black women. This isn't to say that they need to start being the campus hoe in order to get a man, but the same thing they accuse black men of doing is the same thing they do--they're caught up in looks, appearance and status.
Yes, status.
They want a man who "compliments" them, as if to say, as you said, that they are the epitome of what's to be wanted and desired. I think it's almost a self-fulfilling prophecy; too many black women set themselves up for being tragically single. Standards for them are things that support a status, nothing like open lines of communication or knowing when to compromise. If they said that, they'd be stuck with Bubba down in Wilson dorm 214 who might not bathe everyday.
I think it's cool for them to be caught up on status and looks, but hell, just be honest about it up front; stop tryna come off as some archetypal woman when you're really just a woman who lies to herself to get through the day.
@the Uppity Negro,
ReplyDeleteI agree with you to some extent. At least as it pertains to women who complain. Your opinions don't apply to all women, and I doubt that's what you're suggesting.
But I do notice a general tone from many of the women who engage in this type of rhetoric, and it's that tone which I'm addressing and which I believe you touched on as well.
Great post. I think you articulated your point very well. A few thoughts to consider:
ReplyDelete1. I think we have to allow for some difference between what people say and the reality of what actually happens. Women often say they're looking for this, this and this, and men often SAY they're looking for this, this and this, but in reality, it often plays out differently.
When women meet someone who they really click with, or who makes them laugh, or shares a mutual passion for world music, they often let all of their preferences and proclamations of what they want go. Every man under six feet tall is not single.
Men (not all, but some) do the same thing. They say they want someone they can take home to mom, who's kind and who doesn't need makeup or any other additives... and then they fall for the girl with long (purchased) locks who doesn't know how to boil an egg and who thinks children are icky.
We all play a role here. I used to go by what people said to determine what they were about. But that method failed. Now I go by what people do, and it's worked out much better for me.
2. You are certainly entitled to create your own standard, preferences, etc and stick with them. You also are certainly entitled to shun women for doing the natural human thing and projecting their own preferences on others. But look at it like this. Women often adjust their hobbies to match a guy's in an effort to adhere to standards. We adopt a sports team we previously didn't care about or learn to play Halo. Some men appreciate it, and others feel patronized. Mixed signals, HELLO! lol. I'm not saying this is the RIGHT thing to do, but I'm just saying their energy is misdirected but not necessarily horrible.
3. Also, you know how you hear a really good song or you have a great experience and you really want to share it with someone else? Despite the fact that it might not be their style, you can't possibly imagine that someone else would not find The Wire to be the best show of all time!!! It's incomprehensible to you! That's kind of how some women are. They really really like men who are able to provide, so they find it incomprehensible to believe that a man wouldn't find her attractive for having that characteristic. Again, not saying it's the best way of thinking, but it's very human and something to consider when you feel a bit of snark coming on.
Those are just a few of my thoughts. I could talk for days about all the things you said, but I'll save it. Thanks again for the post!
P.S. One day you should talk about the women who do almost the exact opposite. The women who bend and completely change who they are to match someone's preferences are more prevalent than the women you mentioned above. Since Lauryn touched on it Doo Wop (That Thing), I don't think it's been addressed. Everyone's ALWAYS talking about women and their jacked up standards. It gets old.
@Crystal,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the comment. My issue isn't so much the standards of women. To be honest, I couldn't care less. My only issue is when I'm made to feel as tho I should like a woman based on her standards, and not my own. It's the general theme I notice when having these discussions.
In essence, I often hear complaints from the college educated, professional woman that they can't find a man, as tho they are deserving for the reasons of them having a college degree and having things going for them. Those aren't the only reasons they list of course, jus the ones I hear the most. My thing is that those two qualities aren't high priorities for me when I do my evaluations.
I agree with your assessment, however the tone of this post and the next few coming actually take a different turn. I don't care about the standards, so much as I care about the complaints. Next week, I'm addressing the dudes and the week following I'm addressing our entitled generation.
Great read!
ReplyDeleteAmusing how you ticked them Deltas off. But I'm more ticked off that they didn't listen to what you were saying. Just seems ignorant.
I also like the point of view that the ladies deem themselves as quality according to their own perspective. Their perspective doesn't matter.
And what a woman looks like when she comes out of the shower is way more important to me. That's her at her naturalist state.
I get tired of hearing that argument from women that there are no quality dudes yet they deem themselves as quality by their own standards. Only a select few guys are attracted to a particular kinda girl and vice versa. I wouldn't be hurt if I'm not attractive to certain women. It is what it is.
@Bengemin: Well, consider this. How many educated professional women between 23 - 35 do you know looking for a relationship? Now for the men, how many do you know? That IS frustrating. It sucks!
ReplyDeleteSometimes I think guys expect us to keep our chin up throughout this whole situation. Men have a plethora of natural, not so natural, tall, short, funny, friendly, intelligent, educated, not so educated, thick, slim, etc Black women to choose from in regions like DC. And many of those women want a relationship. Women don't have those options. So they complain. And then men complain about women complaining. And we have a never ending cycle of blaming and so forth.
You've already agreed with me that the numbers are skewed in men's favor. So... why aren't we supposed to complain about it again? You don't empathize with the complaints because it's not a problem that YOU have to deal with. But consider that you're in a market searching for a ripe, red juicy tomato. There are several ripe, red juicy tomatoes available, but they aren't looking to be purchased. There are also some rotten tomatoes in this grocery store, but even THEY don't want to be purchased. It's torture sometimes.
I'm not saying women are blameless. Sometimes we need to just be patient and focus on investing in ourselves and/or looking for qualities that matter. However, to paint this picture of complaining women who want a man based on their own standards without any major consideration to why is a little unfair. :)
Our whole lives we're taught to go to school, make something of ourselves, find a husband, have some kids. And we've been duped. We do the right things, follow the little path to success that our parents and society emphasized was the right one, and lo and behold... the men have decided that they're not interested in a relationship or... *gasp* they're not interested in us or our degree!! But we did what we were told! We studied, we combed our hair, we bought a house, we made a name for ourselves in our field, we learned how to cook, we traveled to become cultured and ready for a family. So why isn't this working out? When you address the root of all this bitterness and confusion, then maybe you'll be more sympathetic...
You know what? I think I'll blog about this.
@Crystal Marie,
ReplyDeleteYou should blog about this. I hope you do. Several things...
I never said it wasn't frustrating. I never said it didn't suck.
That you want a relationship, has absolutely nothing to do with me. I'm sorry, but it doesn't.
Of course the numbers are skewed, but in agreeing with you, I cited that they're skewed to fit the numbers. Meaning that you can skew the numbers however you want them. There is no denying that there are more college educated women than college educated men. But none of that has anything do with quality men and women, unless you're defining being educated as being quality. And if so, well, that is your definition, and not mine. The only numbers that really matter, is that there are more women than men period. Which, as far as now, has been the case for a long time. So, complain about that, I guess.
"I'm not saying women are blameless. Sometimes we need to just be patient and focus on investing in ourselves and/or looking for qualities that matter. However, to paint this picture of complaining women who want a man based on their own standards without any major consideration to why is a little unfair. :)"
While your point is valid, you've ignored the context of my picture. Which is reactionary...to an indictment of an entire generation of men, which is perhaps "unfair". So is your unfair any more just than my unfair?
To address your last paragraph, that's not my fault. At all. And that doesn't just pertain to women, but any person who decides to listen to the rules and have things not go in their favor. We're not talking about law abiding citizens who end up on the foul end of the legal system due to some misunderstandings and now they're screwed for life. We're not talking about hard working individuals who get screwed out of their jobs because of corporate greed. We're talking about people who assumed they'd find a relationship for whatever reason. I'm sorry, but I can't be sympathetic, especially when you have all of those other things going for you.
But besides all of that, you're not addressing the root of what I'm saying: that I have my standards, tastes, and preferences, and regardless of your standards and how you evaluate yourself and how you evaluate your partners, none of that has anything to do with whether or not I'm going to take an interest in you.
So fine, go to school. Make a career. Learn to cook. Travel the world. But I don't have to find any of those things attractive if I don't want to. And I'm not to be blamed if I don't.
"That you want a relationship, has absolutely nothing to do with me. I'm sorry, but it doesn't."
ReplyDeleteNever said that you did. No need to be sorry. Simply addressing the root of the problem and providing a context for the expressed bitterness.
"But none of that has anything do with quality men and women, unless you're defining being educated as being quality. And if so, well, that is your definition, and not mine."
It's not my definition. However, it's not just college education that skews the numbers. I think it's safe to say a quality man includes one who's not in jail. And more men, particularly Black men, are in jail percentage wise than women. It could be the fault of a racist system. Whatevs. Either way, it doesn't change the fact that women get the short end of the quality stick on multiple measures.
"Which is reactionary...to an indictment of an entire generation of men, which is perhaps "unfair". So is your unfair any more just than my unfair?"
The indictment wasn't on generation of men, it was specifically addressed to you, based on this article and your comments. :)
"I have my standards, tastes, and preferences, and regardless of your standards and how you evaluate yourself and how you evaluate your partners, none of that has anything to do with whether or not I'm going to take an interest in you."
That's fine. I'm simply saying to you... this frustration/complaints/etc has a root. Black women in America didn't get together and decide to be mad; many are just speaking to their frustration. You shouldn't personally be blamed. And the way those people talked to wasn't helpful. But even with that... the ratio of men to women that were there and open to discussing relationships or whatever you were talking about is enough to drive someone up the wall. How can we fix it if we don't address it?
In any community where there is a lack of resources, that frustration fuels a reaction which could be gang violence, illegal occupations, or something good, like hip-hop. :) We can arrest folks, blog about their frustration, and do whatever else, but the problem won't get fixed until we address the resource problem.
Generally speaking, I don't disagree with your point about picking your own standards, preferences, etc. Of course you should! I'm just simply pointing out where the backlash comes from. That seems like a more logical way of addressing the problem.
@Crystal Marie,
ReplyDeleteI don't think I disagree with anything that you're saying, but I do think we're talking about the same issue, separately...if that makes sense.
I think your points about addressing the root of the problem are valid, and probably more valid than my addressing the result of the problem, which as I see it, is women IN THIS SCENARIO making nonsensical complaints.
The underlying theme of this posts, and the two that will follow, don't really concern the issue that you raised. Again, that doesn't make your points invalid, it jus explains the direction of my comments, which as I now understand it is different from the direction you decided to intepret this post...which is fine.
I appreciate and welcome your perspective for offering a differing take on the issue, and I also look forward to your blog on the subject should you write it.
Hilarious question to ask AFTER a slew of mob-mentality complaints. I'm surprised you made it out alive. I commend you.
ReplyDeleteNow I can't speak for all women, especially for women with the mindset of "I've cleared all hurdles, and with this almighty social/academic resume, I'm ready to receive the reward of finding a good man". I've never felt this way, because not only do I get plenty of ass (hah joking), but I've always believed things that will happen will happen, so no complaints can stem from this somewhat blind patience. But (hopefully) to divulge some insight into why some women complain about men not finding them "qualified" - I believe - is rooted in the communication of expectations early on.
Hear me out.
Yes, we hear women complaining blah blah blah - however (it seems) you've encountered them at the point of complaining without investigating the situation from which the complaint came. In most of my "cry-on-my-shoulder" experiences, my girls seem to have similar stories about how it was great (during the 2-month infatuation stage) and then abruptly, the guy didn't want anything afterwards - and they couldn't understand why they weren't "qualified" for further pursing. This experience is somewhat the origin of "The Complaint" - both parties should've communicated their expectations ahead of time, and if you don't know what your expectation is at the time, that's alright too as long as you vocalize it. But as humans, we tend to have this pride at not handling rejection well - so the chick's rationale could've easily been "so you don't think I'm good enough for you" or something similar. The roles also could've easily been reversed - I think we just need to understand that (like you said) beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so if someone doesn't find you attractive in all of their aspects, then they don't. Accept it and move on to the next Thor-like statuesque of a man.
As a side note - these women that were complaining were 4th years in college - that means they were around 22years old. When I was 22 (sooooooo long ago), I was NOT ready for any kind of real relationship, yet I wanted some sweet sweet loving. And I'm sure that was the sentiment of 99% of the males on campus - so yea, even though I disagree, I can understand why these women were frustrated at not being treated the way they "deserved" to be treated.
This is bhillboy37- I think that when men hear women constantly complain that there aren't any educated, handsome, financially stable, God fearing men for them to date, then we show up feeling educated, handsome, financially stable and God fearing and then all the women in the room basically say "So What". We have a right to be confused.
ReplyDelete